In the previous episode of #drinkport, I asked Singapore-based writer, educator, and Master of Wine Richard Heming to quite literally help me answer the question: Who in the world drinks Port?

Turns out, a lot of people do. But what about the Portuguese? How is Port perceived in its home country of origin?

In this episode, I chat with Jorge Nunes, a winemaker and the Asia Pacific Market Manager at Symington Family Estates, the world's leading producer of premium Ports and one of the top Portuguese wine producers.

We also discuss Port's power and his favorite Port moment, and he answers my most burning question: Do the Portuguese drink Port?

Read highlights from the transcript below (edited for clarity):

Q: Tell is more about your role at Symington Family Estates?

A: I've been the Asia Pacific Manager for the family for the last 13 years — 11 of which l’ve been living in Asia. I’m currently based in Singapore and lived Hong Kong prior moving to here. I represent the family wines in the region. And it is a very large region with a lot of people and it covers from pretty much Pakistan, India, all the way to Japan and the Pacific Islands. So it is a very wide area.

It’s a wide canvas for not just for Port, but for many other wine categories. And it makes it very exciting because we can communicate our brand messages, our product messages, our consumption moments, and our consumption methods and suggestions without any prejudice from the listener.

If you go to the U.K., and you suggest to a 70-year-old consumer to put Port wine in an ice bucket, they would think you’re crazy, ‘How dare you touch something so sacred as Port?’ And if I do that here, there's no preconceived idea. People just accept it, especially if you're from the industry — if you're suggesting that, then that must be right. And it's exciting. It's exciting because it really allows you to do things right from the start.

Of course, the downside of it is that the knowledge of wine is very limited. And so it does require quite a lot of groundwork to build that knowledge. And that's just at the consumer level, it’s at the distributor level as well. I think it's come a long way since I started traveling to this part of the world.

One thing I love about Asians and Asia in general, is that the people are very fast learners. They adapt really well and they're keen to learn. There's this hunger for knowledge which makes it perhaps the most exciting part of the world.

So it's been really exciting. And I think it's finally working. It was sort of a very long, lonely process to build it but now we're seeing the results.

Q: Tell us more about Symington Family Estates’ sustainability initiatives and how it’s making a positive impact on the industry and in the world.

A: Sustainability is a major focus for the business these days and it’s been in the making for a number of years. It was already a priority among the fourth generation, but certainly the fifth generation has brought more energy and focus into it.

I think the rationale is that, for one, we should all be doing something. It should be everyone's responsibility in our individual lives to make a difference. But perhaps we as farmers feel it more than anyone else. While the face of the business is always sales and marketing, we're producers, we're farmers.

A region like the Douro Valley certainly experiences the effects of climate change more because of its very hot, dry nature that’s getting worse. And so there was a recognition within the business that if we did not take part in a movement for more renewables, less impact, trying to lower our glass weight, for example, which is such a massive contributor to global emissions.

These days you've probably heard of the greenwashing. It's very easy for people and organizations to come out and say, ‘Yeah, we're doing this and there's no certification behind it.’ And we wanted that certification. And so we approached two major entities. One of them is the B Lab, which goes beyond sustainability to overseeing how companies treat their workers, their suppliers, their customers, etc. We achieved the B Corp a few years ago, and were the first major European winery to get it, which is excellent.

At the same time, we were approaching another organization, more wine-related, called the International Wineries for Climate Action (IWCA), which was founded by one very famous American winery, Jackson Family Wines, and one very famous European winery, the Torres family. And we wanted to be a part of it and so we decided to go for it. And we were accepted as a member.

There is a sort of auditing of what we do and how we do it and where we can improve. It's good because we keep an eye on each other. So all these different wineries are looking at each other and are setting hopefully good examples for others to follow.

So these two things have been really useful for us to really look at what we're doing. It's a process. We've set some really, really ambitious targets. But we love that journey because it forces us to change in every way we can. And whatever we're going to get to by 2030, which is sort of our project, it will be substantially better than what we're doing now. And I think that is the ultimate objective. So I'm very proud of this side of the business because it’s very dear to my heart and I think it's the right thing to do.

Q: Tell us about Port wine’s place at the Portuguese table?

A: Port wine for the Portuguese is a very, very strong point of pride. We are very proud of it. And that's why Port is associated with a commemoration, a special occasion, a toast, or a family gathering. Port has this really cool aura of prestige.

The downside of it is that most Portuguese families do not know how to store or serve it properly. We’ll often keep a bottle of Port that has been opened for a very long time, usually in a cupboard somewhere in the back. And it's the Christmas Port or it's the birthday Port.

And they serve it in very tiny chalices where you can't swirl it so you can't taste properly. And it’s often served at room temperature, which is okay most of the times, but there's no understanding that Port could, and should, in the opinion of the industry, be slightly chilled.

We don't treat Port very well. But I think things are changing in the quality on-premise in restaurants and bars. There certainly are a number of places now that take care of it properly — proper storage, proper glassware, proper temperature — which is great.

But traditionally, and even within my family where I work in the Port business, you would imagine that my family would know how to drink Port, but not really. It is quite a difficult thing to change. But I think, particularly among younger generations who are being exposed to it more at the on-premise level, it's gradually changing.

But no, if you're expecting Portuguese to be a prime example of how to drink port, it's not necessarily the case.

Q: Where do you see the biggest opportunity for Port? Is it an audience segment? Is it a particular style? What do you think?

I would say the opportunity is, as for probably any wine or spirits category, would be the millennials. I probably wouldn’t say Generation Z. I think Port takes a bit of time to get into. I often associate Port as a low energy drink, meaning that Port is often enjoyed when you're relaxed. Once you're relaxed, you wanna have a conversation. You wanna share a moment of just tranquility, really.

Port isn’t like cocktails, vodkas, and high energy shots of tequila. I wish we were consumed by the young generation, but I know that we have a little bit of that aura of after dinner relaxation. And we tend to relax more and enjoy those quieter moments when we're 35 years and older. So we do tend to focus a bit more on that demographic.

I think the opportunity at the moment is the older millennials and certainly already approaching the young millennials that are getting into that stage of life where they obviously have more disposable income and more open to the sort of moment of consumption. This is global, I would say.

Now, we have been, as a company certainly and as an industry overall, very innovative, particularly with Cockburn’s or Graham’s, for example, with some pretty cool products coming out. And those are very much aimed at the younger audience — the 30s demographics.

It is a balancing act here because we can't look like we are too cool because the majority of our consumers are 40-45+ at the moment. So we can't look like we are neglecting and forgetting them and just targeting the young consumers. There is a fine balance here between how creative we can be, but how traditionalist we must remain. And I think we're doing it correctly because we are touching a few categories that we could be a bit more creative and we're leaving the more traditional categories as they are.

I think premiumization is probably the key solution for Port in general. And if you look at the creativity happening over the last few years, particularly with Graham’s Blend Nº12 and Cockburn’s Tales Of The Unexpected line, it’s very premium positioning but it’s within the entry-level categories.

So we’re premiumizing the standard range. Consumers will go for the brands they know, but it is a more commodity-driven, more price-driven category. And so this is where we're trying to innovate. We're trying to premiumize that range of entry-levels to make it a bit more relevant, a bit more fun.

On top of it — and this is a structural problem of the Douro Valley and Port production — Port wine cannot be cheap. It is impossible to produce a cheap Port. If you've been to the Douro, you will realize that the landscape is just not conducive of producing high volumes at low cost. I's impossible. It's mountains. It's hot and dry, and so yields are low. Labor costs are massive. And so we're extremely expensive. It's not sustainable. And so premiumization is what we really need for the survival of the category.

Q: What's your Port moment? Do you #drinkport?

A: My Port moment is enjoying it while sitting on the sofa watching Netflix and relaxing. The other night I had a Graham's 1997 Single Harvest Tawny in the fridge. It's been open for probably a month or so. I fetched a glass and just enjoyed it on the sofa watching a great program. And that was it. That's my Port moment.

And I love sharing a bottle of Port between friends. As the Port guy amongst a group of friends or in the business, usually I opt for a vintage style. Especially if I'm having dinner with a distributor. I usually choose a bottle of vintage, because I love the opening, decanting, the discovery — the formality of Port.

Port has that ability to just relax, soothe, and allow conversation to happen. That is the ultimate Port power, I think.